The Key Factors to Consider When Choosing a Sales Methodology

Lucas Price: [: 00:00:00

And if not, what is it? In this episode, we have Paul Butterfield with us to discuss how to select, adopt, and measure a sales methodology. Paul is the founder and CEO of Revenue Flywheel Group, where he passionately transformed sales teams into customer centric organizations that distinguish themselves by how they sell. Rather than with price or product as an executive board president of the sales enablement society, Paul draws on 20 years of expertise to elevate the role of sales enablement in organizations worldwide through engagement, communication, research, and development. Paul has designed, [00:01:00] built, and led high impact enablement strategies and teams for companies like Vonage.

GE nice in contact and in structure. In addition, he's coached go to market leaders from Expedia, Aspen Media, Orbitz, and Red Wing Shoes in both change management and sales methodology adoption. Prior to his career as a revenue enablement leader. Paul led channel and direct sales organizations for world class companies, including Intuit, Microsoft, and Hewlett Packard.

He helps organizations develop a culture where every customer touch point aligns with revenue growth objectives and creates the most positive impact possible. Paul, welcome. And thanks for joining us.

Paul Butterfield: Thanks, Lucas. I've been looking forward to this.

Lucas Price: Is there anything else that our listeners should know about you and your background?

Paul Butterfield: When you and I were prepping for this session, I, we figured out that we're both passionate about scuba diving and ocean conservation. So that's a pretty big part of my life as well, but I think that'll do it.

Lucas Price: yeah, that's great. How did you get your start in sales?

ny. When I was in college, I [: 00:02:00

So for a college job, it was great. Plus, they offered insurance if you sold a minimum number of sets every quarter. Started with that and out of school. My, my first job was in sales and Pretty much been that way ever since. I did a short stint in marketing with Novell, but decided that I was a sales guy, not a marketer.

Lucas Price: Typically to move into sales leadership, it means you have a certain amount of success in sales. And usually that success in sales comes from an inner determination. What gave you the determination to succeed in sales?

her that's professionally in [: 00:03:00

If I'm going to be in sales, I'm going to, I'm going to make the effort to be successful at it. Now it doesn't mean I got it right all the time, plenty of mistakes, but I did see success. And in the case of HP, which was my first tech sales job. I'm going to chalk a lot of it up to just plain hard work.

There's probably some luck in there as well. When I looked back at the team that I was on, we were a new team. What had happened is HP had started this team and I was based out of St. Louis, so it's based out of the district office there, which covered six states. And that team grew successfully.

And so they opened up another leadership role. And when I just looked at those that joined the same time I did. Yes, I had better sell through result. I had better sales results, but I also remember there were some data issues with our territories at the beginning, and I know that some that I went through onboarding with were frustrated and sat back and got angry and waited for HP to figure out our records or our territory alignments.

[: 00:04:00

Lucas Price: I realized this is a bit of a personal question that kind of also touches on the professional, but. I think that, that work ethic, that ability to go all in that determination that you talked about for most people, it comes from something specific in their backgrounds, and some of it is something specific professionally.

And some of it is something specific personally. Is there something that you'd point to in your background that gave you that work ethic, that determination, that desire to succeed and achieve.

Paul Butterfield: I had parents that loved me, but at the same time were very demanding and almost abusive in, in the fact that anything my brothers and I did. Was never enough, was never good enough.

that one of the things that [: 00:05:00

Lucas Price: I appreciate you sharing that. Tell us about the transition to sales leadership and how you decided to go into sales leadership or how that happened?

Usually, someone has to take a chance on you for you to move into sales leadership.

Paul Butterfield: They did. His name's Lee Wells, Lee. I haven't talked to Lee in a few years. If you're out there, buddy. The team that I was on and I'm focusing really on my tech sales side. Prior to that, I'd run my own consulting agency for four years, but it was in a very different industry. In the case of that, I was new to tech, was not new to selling.

I did well enough that when that opening came up and I applied, I was given a good shot, a serious shot at it. There were other great applicants as well. And so you're right, Lee did take a chance on me. They relocated me, in fact, even from St. Louis to Salt Lake City because that's where there's HP office in Salt Lake is where the job was based at the time.

than sales leaders that I'd [: 00:06:00

That I could apply in my role leading the sales team, and many of them were my peers up until my promotion that really helped me find my way.

Lucas Price: Then at some point you were exposed to a number of different sales methodologies and started to become interested in that. Did that interest start as a seller or as a sales leader? Like where does that fit into your career?

yeah, it was in the summer of: 2002

I'd been through other sales trainings of various types and some good ones, some not so good ones, but there was something about this particular methodology that just really made sense to me. And there were a few things about, there were a few things we can get into that things about that methodology because other methodologies I found have those essential elements as well, but at the time it was all new to me and a lot of it was focused on how do I sit down and have.

A business level conversation with a prospect. Now, in my case, it wasn't me. It was my team, but how are we, they had us go through first as leaders before the teams went through and how are we setting up our training? Our teams, coaching our teams to go in and have business level conversations as opposed to product feature dumps.

it, some of those terms, but [: 00:08:00

This was a very different kind of approach. Go in, develop the business acumen to have a conversation, understand what's going on. Why did they choose to meet with us? Something in their business isn't working right, or they wouldn't be talking to us. It's our job as sellers to uncover what that is. Even if they're not particularly great at articulating it.

We need to be skilled enough to help them do that. Because again, they've come to us. They whether we did outbound or it was inbound, they've chosen to spend time with us. We need to make sure it's worth everybody's while that was the big change for me is going in with that kind of conversation as opposed to the typical, here's a pitch deck.

Let me show you my product. A lot of the ways that we've been taught to sell up to that point.

Lucas Price: Yeah, that makes sense.

se, but I think some of them [: 00:09:00

How would a sales leader decide, evaluate like which sales methodology is going to be best for my context? What are some of the factors and things that that you'd be thinking about in that situation?

Paul Butterfield: You pose an interesting question in the introduction, and you'd mentioned specifically mentioned medic, right? Do I roll out medic? There are some really great frameworks and approaches to sales that in my experience. Are not full methodologies and so as a leader, one of the first things that I recommend people are looking at is the methodology or the methodologies that we're evaluating.

Are they full cycle? Are they going to help my team have the skills that they need to develop funnel qualify appropriately and make sure only real opportunities we have a shot at get into the funnel. Is it going to give them the skills and ability to build a multi thread and build an effective sphere of influence in the account?

u never completely control a [: 00:10:00

Some people call it a sequence of events, but some sort of mechanism where jointly we're getting consensus with the prospect that we're going to go through this form of evaluation process. Is it teaching my team how to negotiate? There are a lot of great sales approaches out there that are good at the top of the funnel, but not all of them cover.

The entire cycle and that's one of the first things that I recommend looking for because most sales leaders I work with That's what they want. Yes, they want better qualifying. They want better discovery, but they want all that other stuff, too.

Lucas Price: I brought medic up because it is very popular and and and you touched on a few issues there, so let's just get into that real quickly. There is medic a sales methodology.

r medic also says it's not a [: 00:11:00

I think that for a lot of organizations, it is a far superior way of qualification framework than what they're using. Especially if they're not using anything or if they're using BAM it's miles ahead of that, but it's not a full methodology.

Lucas Price: I agree

Paul Butterfield: of companies I know actually use it with a methodology even, right?

That's their qualification framework, and then they'll use a methodology to cover everything else. I've seen that.

Lucas Price: Part of the reasons that people that, can get think of it differently is they're used to band, as a qualification methodology. And medic is a qualification methodology. That's really qualifying the deal into your pipeline throughout all of the stages, instead of just something you do up front.

So I think that's why people think Oh, it belongs in a different category than, band or, some of the other method, qualification. And I think it does belong in a different category but I agree with you, it's not a full methodology.

e a benefit for a company is [: 00:12:00

It still offers a better customer experience. It's still, tightens up the process in a lot of ways. If it's used, if it's implemented effectively, but it's a lighter lift for lack of a better term. And to be honest, doing that is better than continuing to do things the way that you were that aren't a great customer experience because medic is not a bad customer experience at all.

Lucas Price: If we set aside medic for a second and we're thinking, okay, there's a number of different full methodologies out there, maybe one company sells to enterprise and other company sells to mid market. They have different sales motions. What would lead them to, Yeah.

ght methodology for them? It [: 00:13:00

Paul Butterfield: I go back to what I experienced when I went through that first certification. It was customer centric selling was the name of the methodology that we're using. And I actually used that methodology at a couple of companies post Microsoft as well. But that just happened to be the one at the time.

And I stand by what I learned there. And that is what is that discovery experience like? Is it pitch deck at a demo? If it is back up because that is not the discovery experience. And frankly, you're not going to get the outcomes from discovery that you want with that. So when you're looking at methodologies, how are they teaching the team to discover?

They teaching them again. They teaching them to go in, develop the business acumen, helping them develop business acumen to go in and have conversations to understand what's not working well today. What's the impact of that? What is the future state that you have for the company? What are the potential benefits from that?

ason you want to get to that [: 00:14:00

Of a vision in their own mind of how, what, some product or service that you offer are going to help them bridge that gap and get to that future state. If you haven't helped them develop that vision, you're probably not going to get very far with them because what we think isn't particularly relevant.

Of course, we think that our solution is going to fix their problems, right? They're not going to give that a lot of credence, but if we can help them start to see it, now we know we have an opportunity that we can work.

is going to be laid out that [: 00:15:00

By the customer. It attempts to remove some of the subjectivity of just what the rep thinks is going to happen from the stage of the pipeline. You can only advance if you have certain artifacts in place. I, I'm not an expert in it, but it seems like a great tool for me.

Who is it bad for, like, where would you say Oh, customer centric selling is probably not the best methodology for this type of organization.

Paul Butterfield: I can only speak to my own experience, but when I went to Instructure, I was recruited there by the CRO. I think a story is the best way I can illustrate this. I was recruited there by the CRO to come in and build out enablement. He was the first global head of sales they'd had. Prior to that, everything was run, regionally.

And he wanted. Standardized enablement standardized processes, et cetera. When I got there and this individual knew me well and recruited me and our assumption, both of our assumptions was that we would bring what I had used and implemented successfully across multiple sales organizations, which was customer centric.

What I [: 00:16:00

So they were former educators or it directors from a university that had used the products and that sort of thing. And there's nothing wrong with that, but without previous SAS experience, without previous commercial sales experience, as good as customer centric was, I decided it wasn't right.

tter and that much different [: 00:17:00

And so there was a combination of things have been working very well for them. But by the time my boss got there, that chasm we're on the other side of the chasm. And so now how do we teach people to go in and talk to the skeptics and the laggards and help to build a case for change educational institutions, I learned are even more resistant to change than businesses in many cases.

So we needed something that was going to be effective of that, but also something that was going to be. More easily adapted and understood by my sellers. So a lot there that I'm sharing but hopefully that, that gives, listen to some insight is both are great methodology. The methodology we ended up going with also a great methodology.

that I chose, but they were [: 00:18:00

One or two call close, relatively small amount. You can scale any methodology down, but it takes some work because what you don't want to do is ever overcomplicate the sales cycle and create a negative buyer experience because you're dragging things out unnecessarily. But the world that I live in has always been pretty technical and not a one or two call close.

Lucas Price: That's great insight. In structure, you brought in this very commercial methodology. You wanted to find something less commercial, but they had the same elements. How was it able to keep the Objectivity in the pipeline and the process that can be followed every time without having those kinds of same commercial conversations.

print of what to start doing [: 00:19:00

There's that's not clear. And so then people go back to what they're comfortable with. And, things don't stick the methodology for what it's where I evaluated for and looked at them very deeply. The one that I ended up selecting for that environment was called selling through curiosity and selling through curiosity taught these folks how to do the same type of quality discovery, but it was.

Just in the how, the way we were teaching them to do the questioning, the way that we were teaching them to be curious, no pun intended. It was something that I recognized. I'd suspected would be a very comfortable way of doing questioning and discovery that felt less salesy for these folks that were not coming from a hardcore sales background and it was well received.

that methodology. Also made [: 00:20:00

In my experience, I heard, I don't remember who said this once, but someone said, what is the best, what is the best methodology? And the response was the one that you consistently apply.

Lucas Price: There's a lot of great directions I could go with that,. You We're looking at four methodologies. You end up selecting, going through curiosity. Can you tell us a little bit about how that went of learning about the four methodologies and deciding which one to go with?

Paul Butterfield: I invested in going through, all of them had online resources of some type or other that you could, go through and get the online version. In the case of two of those, I went and did that. I invested the few hundred dollars, whatever it was to do the, knowing that was a lighter version of what we would roll out, but I wanted to understand the concepts in one case, I had used the methodology.

anything changed? What were [: 00:21:00

About an opportunity to not only myself, but someone from my team who had been at the company longer, much longer than I had, whose opinion I trusted if we could go through and audit one of their life classes just to again see, because we're at this point, we're in the post covid lockdown world. And everybody was still, I wouldn't say figuring out how to deliver these sorts of things online.

se if you'd asked me prior to: 2020

The real learning happens in the case study groups. And the role playing and the breakout and the [00:22:00] that's where it happens. And could you recreate that on zoom? I wasn't sure that you could, we didn't have a lot of choices in 2020 and 2021, but I wanted to see it for myself. So that was really the final step.

And then real life went through it. And this other individual that, agreed to go through with me. We're like, yes, this is what our sellers need. And we moved forward, but I wasn't confident going and making the recommendation without seeing it since I had never used it in the field.

Lucas Price: You chose a new methodology you'd never used before to a large degree. Like you're staking a little bit of your reputation and your future success on the right methodology. So that online class gave you the confidence in order to be able to do that.

It was there anything else that you had to work through in order to get the confidence to Hey this is going to be the one that's really going to help us here at Instructure.

Paul Butterfield: I have a pretty strong network of folks that have led sales and enablement at various size companies. And of course, that the opinions, the experiences of my network were considerable. And in one case, a good friend of mine had implemented that as a global methodology.

t the company where she was. [: 00:23:00

Lucas Price: Part of what I'm gathering is that you had a, you, you did the research, you got an instinct about which one would be the best one, but you didn't just go with that instinct. You did put in a lot of work in terms of auditing a class, reaching out to other people in your network to validate.

Whether you were going down the right path because it is a big decision. But I, I think that's a great learning for all of us in terms of the steps we can make when we're making a really big decision like that. I'm going to change the topic a little bit here, only a little bit.

right, the Monday after what [: 00:24:00

Paul Butterfield: Again, it's key that you've got that business conversation element. I just can't overstress that. I'm working very closely with methodology now, different than the other two. That's a bit more modern in some of the approaches, but it still has the same elements. And so before you teach anybody a class, the first thing that's critical is do a survey internally and find out how much knowledge has been documented about your buyers.

're seeing? And then is that [: 00:25:00

With what it is that we happen to sell. So that's step one. Make sure you have that. If you don't take the time to develop it because this becomes part of the prescription. So people are coming out of their training. Here's some best practices I recommend. Number one, a good methodology. You and I, we hinted this earlier is also going to teach them to have crisp, clear.

Objective criteria on whether or not something is an opportunity and makes it into the pipeline. We, especially in organizations where you have SDRs you have what I call the hook a brother up syndrome, right? It's the end of the quarter. It's come on, dude, I just need to convert one more to hit my next tier.

pens. It happens. And that's [: 00:26:00

In where they are and where they need to get to that's significant enough for them to change change is a massive thing. And when you're talking to a prospect, you're really trying to help them determine two things. One is the current situation untenable enough that change is necessary? Or can they just put a bandaid on and get by?

stablished, say our criteria [: 00:27:00

You and I've been talking current state impact of current state. Desired future state potential benefit. They expect from the future state. Let's just start with those four. We're coming out of this and that's our new criteria. If if we get a conversation that tells us those things, we've all agreed, we're going to convert this, the AE is going to take it and it's going to work it. what about all those opportunities that the AE had in their pipeline? The day they showed up for class,

Lucas Price: Yeah,

Paul Butterfield: they're still going to be. A lot of thrash and a lot of potential wasted time. So one of the best practices that I've implemented with many organizations, and this takes a little bit of stomach, I'll be honest, is that coming out of it, give those AEs a one or two week grace period to go through and do a very hard evaluation.

That the stuff that's in their pipeline, being brutally honest. Are those real opportunities? Because we both know there's stuff that makes it into your funnel just takes on a life of its own. It just keeps getting punted further and further along. Let's get them out. You've got a two week grace period.

But at the end of that Then [: 00:28:00

That's a game. I hate that term gets abused, but it is. It's a game changer because many organizations don't go through that step. And so then the AEs are stuck still trying to progress opportunities that started off in all the old ways. So that's another area that I've seen make a big difference. Companies get a little stressed about it sometimes because they will see a 700 million pipeline all of a sudden, maybe look like 500 million.

But the thing I try to help them remember is it was always 500 million. And those deals were probably never going to happen anyway. So it's better to know where you are and then build back up with real opportunities.

Lucas Price:

If a listener is thinking about implementing a new methodology, what are the things that they should be thinking about to make sure that they avoid mistakes?

self an evaluation rubric or [: 00:29:00

That's a huge red flag. If they're not either, they're not using what they sell in selling to you, or they are using it and it sucks. But either way, think about that, where you enjoying the sales experience. Is this the experience you want your, so start with that. I would also then. How much ability do they have to work with you and help you understand how to customize it?

like legos that you can take [: 00:30:00

For a small to medium business where maybe you're talking with a co founder or at minimum a general manager, but it's much easier decision to cycle and you don't want to bog it down with all the things enterprise needs the good methodologies. You can do that and I have we have done it successfully, so make sure it's customized for your because the whole idea is to create a great buyer experience.

So let's make sure we can do that. The other thing I would look at is, are they going to, what's their track record? There is a methodology I'm working with heavily these days called gap selling. And one of the things that appealed to me about them is all the things that I look for in a great methodology. But they've got a bit more of, they've added a bit of more of a modern approach to it and the way that it's being delivered. Very impressed with the online delivery mechanism they built and that sort of thing. So that's the last thing I want to mention. We are probably never going to go back to everyone flying in from all over the world to sit in a classroom for three and a half days.

anslate in a classroom? Just [: 00:31:00

It was like a knee jerk reaction after pandemic Oh my gosh We got to figure out a way to deliver this online Whereas some of the others have been developing this for years and have a very mature model, so I would look at that

Lucas Price: As we wrap up our conversation here, what are the most important two or three takeaways that you would leave with our listeners in terms of what they should think about in terms of successfully selecting the And implementing a methodology.

ou're being sold to? Because [: 00:32:00

So how does that feel, right? Are they, is that the experience you want for your customers? What is the ability? Of a salesperson or excuse me, what ability are they going to have after methodology? Again, let's go back. We didn't have a lot of time to talk about it, but building out that sphere of influence Do that multi threading every report I read shows more average stakeholders in on opportunities, right?

And it's probably just going to continue that way. So that's a critical skill Does the methodology talk about it or does it just talk about discovery as a one and done or not really get into? What do you do after that first discovery? And then finally, it's that deal control and negotiate, make sure that there are those concepts are also tied in.

based on a rep's opinion or [: 00:33:00

It is going to be based on customer inputs, which is going to just increase your predictability and the accuracy of your forecast alone with that.

Lucas Price: Those are all great points. I wrote down a couple as well along the way. One I really liked the story you shared about how you researched it and, do your research. And it's a big decision, make sure you're investing properly into that decision. Use a methodology that brings objectivity.

To your pipeline, which you discussed that was on your list as well. And then the third one that I wrote down is like, when you implement your new methodology, requalify your pipeline, see which of the steps that you've missed from the methodology and make sure that it's in the right stage based on the steps that you've completed in the steps that you haven't completed.

So I think those are all some great points to wrap up here. Where can people find you online?

also book time with me, but [: 00:34:00

Lucas Price: Thank you for joining us today. If you enjoyed this. Episode of building elite sales teams. Please leave us podcast app. You can find more content online at yardstick. team slash blog. And if you have any feedback from us, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Thank you for joining us.